Date: Thu,  6 Nov 1997 12:30:31 EST
From: HSL123@aol.com
To: Multiple recipients of list <ibogaine@ibogaine.org>
Subject: Ibogaine experience report

The following is a report that was sent to Nicholas Saunders from a person
experiencing what appears to be a full dose of Ibogaine.  My comments on the
report follow.  I had initially thught the report was from Nicholas but, this
was not correct.

Howard S. Lotsof

Ibogaine Experience - Visions

I took 1.67 grammes of pure Ibogaine. I was looked after by someone who had
administered about 17 treatments to drug addicts and spiritual seekers. The
setting had no spiritual content which made me realize how important it is
to provide some kind of spiritual/religious/meditative setting as a base of
referral.

Phase 1 (Visions)
The effects came fast, after 15 minutes. For about 4 hours I had intense
visions while lying down. I felt well, no vomiting, but not so intensely
exalted as with daime. I saw faces, especially my own! (They say one might
see the faces of the Bwiti, the ancestors...). Other faces tended to
contort into brutish, animal grimaces. I see primal structures, as with
daime. But being so used to those visions, I just let them happen, letting
go totally, I am not really interested in them. At the deepest point of the
experience I am totally merged in the all pervading void, as if sliding
gently into death. I notice my breath stop for very long periods of time.
And yet I was not aware of any teaching, no revelation...
Phase 2 (intellectual digesting)

After 4 hours I opened my eyes, asked for
the time and went to the toilet. I could not motor coordinate and my vision
was somehow impaired. This phase usually lasts at least 36 hours, and one
just lies down and thinks about one's life, unable to sleep. It is somehow
similar to what happens after a daime ritual, but there this phase lasts
only for 6-10 hours and is less intense.

My thoughts are very negative. "No significant experience, and I had paid a
lot of money!!" I was depressed. The mind realized that it had caught
itself in it's own trap, craving for MORE, avidity for "enlightenment",
"realization", becoming more "perfect". My main realization is that I have
already gone through all the experiences possible on the inward journey,
that I have received all the necessary purification and healing through 22
years of meditation, therapy and daime, that I did not need this
experience!

After 20 hours of this "digesting" I slept for 4 hours. Afterwards I felt
fit enough to stay up, but still feeling the aftereffects, I lay down for
another 10 hours of "thought digesting"
Phase 3 (afterwards)

After this experience I felt quite positive, dynamic, purified. Some visual
impairment remained for another 2 days. I didn't need much sleep. 2-3 hours
in the first week. 4-5 hours now, 10 days after the treatment. I still feel
very "normal", settled and dynamic, and yet with the same
psychological/behavioural weaknesses as before, but accepting this (for the
moment) as my perfect imperfection....

During the 4 hours of visions I felt physically well and somewhat
spiritually elated. I did not feel any attachment to the occurring visions.
They came and went, without any particular meaning for me. I was just
witnessing and letting go. Occasionally I transcended the visionary level
to be overwhelmed by the "void" beyond, which is what really and
unavoidably attracts me. I noticed my breath stop for long periods of time,
both on the out and in stroke, while I felt melting with the all pervading
void, sliding gently into death.

Compared to my Daime experiences, I perceived this session as less intense,
the difficult, purifying, painful passages as well as the spiritual
highlights, which have a very "holy" and "revealing" character in the
daime-ayahuasca rituals.

Afterwards, during the second phase, my thoughts were very negative and
depressed. I felt "cheated", as having fallen into a trap which I had laid
for myself, through the greediness of my mind wanting MORE. I then also
realized that I have long achieved all that there is on the inner journey,
that I have purified body and mind long enough. That I have had all the
revelations, teachings and trainings necessary to fully live my perfect
imperfection in the world. And this was my main realization: that there is
no excuse but to ACT IN THE WORLD.
========================================================
n a message dated,  Wed, Nov 05, 1997 14:38 EDT,
nicholas@ecstasy.org (Nicholas Saunders) describes very well the effects of a
full dose of Ibogaine.

>Ibogaine Experience - Visions

I took 1.67 grammes of pure Ibogaine. I was looked after by >someone who had
>administered about 17 treatments to drug addicts and spiritual seekers. The
>setting had no spiritual content which made me realize how >important it is
>to provide some kind of spiritual/religious/meditative >setting as a base of
>referral.

Nicholas,

Spiritual/religious/medative setting may not influence the effects of
Ibogaine whatsoever. 

>Phase 1 (Visions)
>The effects came fast, after 15 minutes. For about 4 hours I >had intense
>visions while lying down. I felt well, no vomiting, but not so >intensely
>exalted as with daime. I saw faces, especially my own! (They >say one might
>see the faces of the Bwiti, the ancestors...). Other faces >tended to
>contort into brutish, animal grimaces. I see primal >structures, as with
>daime. But being so used to those visions, I just let them >happen, letting
>go totally, I am not really interested in them. At the deepest >point of the
>experience I am totally merged in the all pervading void, as if >sliding
>gently into death. I notice my breath stop for very long >periods of time.
>And yet I was not aware of any teaching, no revelation...

Ibogaine experience is very personal and very internal.  What you learned is
what every shaman learns and what you define as learned at the end of your
description:  To ACT IN THE WORLD.

>Phase 2 (intellectual digesting)

>After 4 hours I opened my eyes, asked for
>the time and went to the toilet. I could not motor coordinate >and my vision
>was somehow impaired. This phase usually lasts at least 36 >hours, and one
>just lies down and thinks about one's life, unable to sleep. It >is somehow
>similar to what happens after a daime ritual, but there this >phase lasts
>only for 6-10 hours and is less intense.

In our use of Ibogaine to treat chemical dependence, it is this long lasting
phase that we consider so valuable:  Ibogaine's ability to outlast the drugs
that are abused and to outlast the users ability to attempt to deceive him or
herself.

>My thoughts are very negative. "No significant experience, and >I had paid a
>lot of money!!"

The money things is almost always something that comes up.  It is why I wish
the entire process was paid for by insurance or a social medical system to
remove the cost barrier.

>I was depressed. The mind realized that it had caught
>itself in it's own trap, craving for MORE, avidity for >"enlightenment",
>"realization", becoming more "perfect". My main realization is >that I have
>already gone through all the experiences possible on the >inward journey,
>that I have received all the necessary purification and healing >through 22
>years of meditation, therapy and daime, that I did not need >this
>experience!

What greater experience could you have.  You learned that you knew already
what was required for you to know.  No more illusions.

>After 20 hours of this "digesting" I slept for 4 hours. >Afterwards I felt
>fit enough to stay up, but still feeling the aftereffects, I lay >down for
>another 10 hours of "thought digesting"

It is these phases that are described as the equivalent of years of
psychoanalysis in hours or days.

>Phase 3 (afterwards)

>After this experience I felt quite positive, dynamic, purified. >Some visual
>impairment remained for another 2 days. I didn't need much >sleep. 2-3 hours
>in the first week. 4-5 hours now, 10 days after the treatment. >I still feel
>very "normal", settled and dynamic, and yet with the same
>psychological/behavioural weaknesses as before, but >accepting this (for the
>moment) as my perfect imperfection....

Could you be more specific as to the visual impairment.  Do you mean the
brief burst of light as magnesium flares?  And, are we not all imperfect.
 This, and an understanding of our place in the dynamic of human history is
one of the things that Ibogaine provides.

>During the 4 hours of visions I felt physically well and >somewhat
>spiritually elated. I did not feel any attachment to the >occurring visions.
>They came and went, without any particular meaning for me. I >was just
>witnessing and letting go.

This is why I consider Ibogaine a more safe drug psychologically than many
others in that you view without attachment.

 >Occasionally I transcended the visionary level
>to be overwhelmed by the "void" beyond, which is what really >and
>unavoidably attracts me.

Could you be more specific and descriptive as to what you mean by the "void"
beyond?


>I noticed my breath stop for long periods of time,
>both on the out and in stroke, while I felt melting with the all >pervading
>void, sliding gently into death.

Once again, could you be more descriptive by what you mean by "sliding gently
into death.?

>Compared to my Daime experiences, I perceived this session >as less intense,
>the difficult, purifying, painful passages as well as the >spiritual
>highlights, which have a very "holy" and "revealing" character >in the
>daime-ayahuasca rituals.
<snip>

> I felt "cheated", as having fallen into a trap which I had laid
>for myself, through the greediness of my mind wanting MORE. >I then also
>realized that I have long achieved all that there is on the >inner journey,
>that I have purified body and mind long enough. That I have had >all the
>revelations, teachings and trainings necessary to fully live >my perfect
>imperfection in the world. And this was my main realization: >that there is
>no excuse but to ACT IN THE WORLD.

I would think that this is a great revelation:  TO ACT IN THE WORLD.
 Sometimes knowing what one has to do may appear disappointing but,
nevertheless, it is what one has to do.

Also what was the most significant visualization during your experience?

Howard (with appreciation for your sharing your experience)